EXCLUSIVE: Schneider - ‘the Church cannot continue into further confusion’
Bishop Schneider spoke to Per Mariam about the need for Leo XIV to address the current crisis of "confusion" in the Church, the topic of LGBT acceptance, and 'walking together'
(PerMariam) — Analyzing the first months of Leo XIV’s pontificate, Bishop Athanasius Schneider has urged the Pope to respond to the Church’s “unprecedented confusion of faith.”
Speaking in an exclusive interview with Per Mariam earlier in October, Bishop Schneider responded to questions on the state of the Catholic Church, the current push for LGBT acceptance, and the future of the ecclesial hierarchy in light of the Synod on Synodality.
“We cannot continue as a Church to go into further confusion,” he warned, petitioning Pope Leo to perform a clarifying action to “strengthen the entire Church in faith.”
Schneider also spoke about the Catholic understanding of how to “accept” individuals, expanding on Pope Leo’s comments on accepting others “who are different than we are.”
As the Church now is beginning the lengthy process of building up to the 2028 Synodal Assembly, the theme of “walking together” is much utilized, but little explained. Schneider offers his assessment of the term and how the Catholic Church journeys on an earthly pilgrimage, whilst always aiming towards heaven.
The full interview is found below. The interview has been lightly edited for clarity, due to the conversation being conducted in English, a language which is not Bp. Schneider’s native tongue.
Haynes — In the final days of Pope Francis’s life, and then in the early days of Pope Leo’s reign, you identified a number of issues that you saw as a needing quite speedy action. We’re now approaching nearly five months of Pope Leo’s reign, and it’s been fairly quiet. What would you say are the most pressing needs in the Church today?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I would say the most pressing need is that the Pope should strengthen the entire Church in faith, which is his first task, one of the main tasks of a pope which God himself gave to Peter and his successors.
It is evident to all that the life of the Church is immersed in an unprecedented confusion of faith, regarding faith, morals, and liturgy – the Church is really immersed in a kind of dust or mist of confusion.
We cannot continue as a Church to go into further confusion. This is against Christ himself, against the Gospel itself. Christ came to bring us the truth, and truth means clarity. And therefore, the most urgent task is that the Pope should perform an act of his magisterium to strengthen all in faith.
It could be done in a kind of profession of faith, similar for example to what Paul VI did in 1968, called the “Credo of the people of God,” where he expressed in a form of profession of faith issues and topics which were denied or confused in the Church at that time.
It is even more urgent after almost 50 years; the confusion has increased and not decreased, especially during the last pontificate. Therefore, this would be the first most urgent task, which would be at the same time one of the greatest acts of charity of the Pope towards his spiritual children, the faithful and towards his brothers the bishops.
Haynes — Pope Leo recently in his long interview with Crux spoke about Fiducia Supplicans and “accepting” people. There is a line where he says that “Fiducia Supplicans basically says of course we can bless all people, but it doesn’t look for a way of ritualizing some kind of blessing because that’s not what the Church teaches. That doesn’t mean those people are bad people, but I think it’s very important, again, to understand how to accept others who are different than we are, how to accept people who make choices in their life and to respect them.”
So in terms of the Catholic understanding, how do we “accept” somebody whilst also being true to the Catholic Church’s teaching and the fullness of doctrine?
Bp. Schneider: The first thing is that, nevertheless, Fiducia Supplicans uses the express words of “same sex couples.” It is used by this document. And these already is a huge confusion because it is treating a blessing. And even though they say “we don’t bless their relationship, but we bless the couple,” but this is impossible, this is inseparable. They present themselves in the quality as same-sex couples. So this is only play of words, or a game of words, which confuses people and which for a normal person who reads the text [reads it as] a permission to bless same sex unions or couples, or other extramarital couples who live in public in a state of sin.
Therefore, this document must be abolished, because it is evident – as it is worded highly ambiguously in a matter which is important for the Church, for people even outside the church – that even Catholics read this as a text blessing same-sex couples.
We cannot continue to make this game. Also to bless a person, you don’t have to issue a document. The Church has always blessed even a sinner if he came and asked for a blessing. Of course, [the blessing is given] under the condition that he is really seriously asking a blessing of God for his conversion, we cannot always give a blessing for some cause for which the person asks. For example we cannot bless when a person comes and says “please, Father, give me a blessing for an abortion. Or, give me a blessing so I will steal something.” This is evidently not possible, but these couples live in a stable situation of sin, which as the union itself is already against God’s will and command.
On which basis are they are united: to do charitable work or united on the same sex erotic attraction? And this is against the creation of God. It’s against the will of God. Therefore, we cannot bless it.
The second part of the question to “accept” people, of course God accepts all, but God calls to repentance. This is the first word which the incarnated God, Jesus Christ, spoke when he started his public mission of teaching. “Repent,” he said. And then when the rise Lord appeared to the Apostles before he ascended into heaven, he said in the end of the gospel of Luke the Lord said the Church must breach penance to all people, and this was first – penance, convert from evil to good with God’s help of course. This is the task of the Church. Therefore, God accepts all people, all sinners provided they have a sincere wish to be converted, to accept the will of God to be converted, to leave evil.
So to accept sinners without transmitting to them – of course lovingly – but nevertheless, the necessity of conversion, it’s not the method of God. It’s not a method of the Gospel, and it was not the method of the Church throughout 2,000 years. Otherwise it is a failure – to confirm them in evil.
And of course, we have to say that:
“you are welcome, but we invite you to seriously reflect upon what you are doing, what you are living because it is not corresponding to the will of God, for your own salvation, we must express you this as a kind of love for you. So you are always welcome and we will help you to leave evil would, and all that is contrary to the will of God, even when it will take time.”
But nevertheless, the important thing is that these people decide to leave the evil lifestyle and to accept the will of God. In any case, the Church must avoid complicity with evil or to be conniving with evil, this is not Jesus Christ and this is not the apostles or the entire Church. This would be another completely strange method – simply to collaborate [and so] to give them a sign that we are that their lifestyle is okay. This we must avoid.
We must say, “we love you as persons even when you are still are not ready or willing to convert, but we love you and pray for you that you will accept the will of God to convert.” It’s the only way to eternal salvation, there is no way without conversion.
We must transmit this to them, but not engage in public organizations like LGBT ones, which by their official aim as an organization seek to change the commandments of God. [These organizations] have the aim that their sinful lifestyle will be confirmed by the Church.
This is a betrayal of the Gospel: the Church would betray her mission to save souls, to call all to repentance.
I repeat, the method must be with love, but we have to avoid confirming the aims of these organizations to change the will of God, to change the commandments of God or the immutable teaching of the church. So this in the true meaning of acceptance.
Haynes — We now have the Synod assembly in 2028 after the Synod on Synodality. One of the big themes is “walking together.” As a bishop and a shepherd of souls, what is the meaning of “walking together” in terms of keeping the hierarchical structure of the church as Christ instituted it?
Bp. Schneider: Yes, walking together, or in Greek synodus, is the only way the Church has and knows. As Our Lord said: “I am the way, I am the truth, I am the Life.” This is the program.
We know that clearly because Jesus Christ said, “I am myself, the Way, and I am the truth, and I reveal you all the truth which the Father gave me to reveal. And therefore, I sent you the Holy Spirit who will remind you of what I said to you. He will introduce you to the full truth and mind. The Holy Spirit will not speak of himself, but only of what he heard from me, Jesus Christ, the truth, the word of God.”
This is the task ever more and more for the Church, not to speak by herself, but as the Holy Spirit only faithfully transmits and what Christ revealed.
The Church must proclaim it more clearly, not less clearly, but more clearly.
This is the vision of the Holy Spirit in the Church: to guide the Church to a clearer and deeper understanding and not to diminish the understanding or to make it ambiguous. St. Paul also says someone cannot run in the arena without knowing the goal, as they will not reach the the goal. St Paul writes that we, the Church, we must know where we are going, very clearly.
St. Paul also says that one who is fighting cannot simply make a stroke in the air, not knowing how to fight. The church on earth is a militant church, a fighting church. This is the reality of earth. We are continuously fighting, of course, first against ourselves, our evil inclinations and the sin and flesh and the devil in the world. This is written by the Apostles, St. Paul and St. John, and Our Lord Jesus Christ.
And so being conscious to lead, to go, to walk together, to Christ, as he is the only aim. We walk towards eternity. This is the pilgrim Church on earth. Where are we on pilgrimage to? We are on pilgrimage to heaven, to the heavenly Jerusalem which is awaiting. The Church always has to present this to people, that this is the aim of our walk together, to the heavenly Jerusalem.
This is awaiting us, this is the reality. In this walk, of course, as Jesus Christ foretold, there will be a lot of temptations and attacks of the spirit, from the father of lies, the attacks of false prophets.
Our Lord warned us against false Christs, false prophets, and so did St. Paul and St. John in the New Testament. They warn about false prophets within the community.
So in our walking, we unfortunately have in our midst fake prophets, and therefore we must be vigilant so that these fake prophets are not confusing and spoiling the others.
We must walk as a procession on pilgrimage with joy and conviction, and all who walk together must say as St. Paul said that “I know what I believe,” and we must be convinced deeply of the Catholic truth.
This is the aim of the Synodal way – to proclaim, to present more clearly the beauty of Christ’s revealed truth, and therefore to avoid confusion, to avoid ambiguity and then to present the beauty of prayer. The first task of the Church is to adore God as the entire creation and this will be our aim in heaven. This is the aim of the triumphant Church, to praise God all eternity, and therefore, in our walk together we must express it also in the sacred, beautiful, dignified liturgy.
This is a powerful, instrument of evangelization – to join to invite the non Catholics, the non-believers who are, metaphorically, watching our procession. When they see that we know whom we believe, we present the truth in beauty and clarity, We pray and worship God in dignity and in sacredness, and beauty, this will powerfully invite and attract them to join our beautiful procession and walking together of the Church.
Therefore, our Lord said, “Go and proclaim my truth, Go and proclaim the gospel, Go and teach all people what I am commanded you, and teach them to live it.” He did not say, “Go and listen to the people. Go and ask their opinions.” This is not Christ. This is a worldly method, not the method of Jesus Christ and of his church. Therefore, the Church, the Pope, and the bishops have the very serious task to proclaim the truth, to make sure that the entire earthly existence of the Church proclaims the Truth.
The Church is the only one who received from God this task, here on earth, to proclaim in love the beauty and the clarity of all God’s truth, and to lead the way towards worshipping God in dignity. And also to show the world that we truly believe in Christ, that we truly have permission to free humanity from evil. Firstly from mortal evil which destroys the spiritual life of the soul; sins against God. [Also] to free humanity from chains of sins and the organization of sins against the First Commandment, such as idolatry, and then fornication and all the sins against love.
This we must very much demonstrate to the Church with our life. Of course, this love is the first and basic commandment, but we must also be good physicians and doctors in order to free humanity from the deadly spiritual diseases of vices and structures of sins against the will of God. So this is the task and the true meaning of walking together.
Thank you for not putting this important interview behind a paywall. For some of us it is simply not possible to be paid subscribers.
Bp. Schneider’s commentary is tolerated by the Vatican because he’s an outlier, an anomaly, and he’s aged. We need 500 Bp. Schneiders.