EXCLUSIVE: Cardinal Müller – Everybody has a right to listen to fullness of the Gospel

Cdl. Müller's comments on the eve of the conclave highlighted the importance of a Pope's duty to preserve clarity of doctrine.

VATICAN CITY (PerMariam) — Cardinal Gerhard Müller has emerged as one of the more vocal prelates in recent years, regularly welcoming journalists to his office to give commentary and analysis on various issues predominant in the Catholic Church.

The German prelate – former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith – has indeed had cause to comment on a number of issues in Pope Francis’ pontificate, including: the German Synod, the Synod on Synodality, female deacons, Catholics supporting abortion and the traditional Mass. All of these are topics on which Cdl. Müller has also spoken about in a number of interviews granted to this correspondent.

Cardinal Müller, October 2024. ©MichaelHaynes

On the eve of the May papal conclave, the cardinal gave an interview to this correspondent, his last before beginning his conclave duties. His most pertinent comments have been published by LifeSiteNews.

However, even though the interview was conducted in light of the upcoming conclave, for the sake of completion the full interview comments are produced here below.

“If there is something doubtful that nobody knows how to interpret, we must go back to the clear word of God and the doctrine of the Holy Scripture as the basis and the criteria,” Müller noted during the discussion.

Cdl. Müller’s analysis on the needs of the Catholic Church remain timely, especially as Pope Leo XIV establishes himself in his, as yet, young pontificate.

{The interview has been slightly edited for clarity and ease of reading. The delay in publishing is purely due to editorial time constraints}

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Michael Haynes: Your Eminence, Archbishop Charles Chaput wrote recently that this interregnum time is really a time for candor. And he highlighted some aspects or styles of governance that had created a lot of confusion in the Church under Pope Francis’ pontificate.

I think this is especially incumbent upon the Cardinals to look at the past pontificate and then to look at where the Church needs to address issues in the future. Do you think that, at least in your experience so far, the Cardinals are aware enough of the issues or the crises of faith that we see in many parts of the Church, or is there a lack of understanding of that?

Cardinal Gerhard Müller: I think the evaluation of the last pontificate will be later questioned in Church history, like other pontificates, and the personal judgment is only in the hands of God. We cannot judge.

In another sense some problems in the Church are obvious and it’s absolutely clear that what is needed is clarity of doctrine, because the doctrine of the Catholic Church is not a philosophical theory for some experts who can make interpretations like the left and right Hegelians.

But the doctrine of Catholic Church, of Christians, is the Word of God in the confession of the believers. The doctrine of the apostles is a sound doctrine of the cross, the Resurrection and Ascension of the Lord and the sending of the Holy Spirit, and all that we have in our Creed…

And that must be very clear as a fundament of the Church, the doctrine of the Church is our belief in the person of Jesus Christ. But all the other truths, all the mysteries are enclosed in Him, are given in Him, and therefore we cannot split personal relation to Jesus Christ and the content of our belief.

That must be very clear also, the relation between doctrine: the dogmatic aspect of all and the pastoral care for single persons. We cannot mingle it, to allow some people to change doctrine, because doctrine is also a medicine.

If you say the truth to the people, you can never please them, {for instance} if the doctor says you must do a long therapy that is not pleasant, but is necessary for a good diagnosis…

And it is the same: God loves the sinner, but he wants that the sinner should convert and go in a new way according to the holy will of God. If you are stealing and lying for your own advantage, nobody would want to change his life.

This is a great challenge – to be very clear and to present the full content of our Christian faith of the Gospel. Everybody has a right to listen to fullness of the Gospel...

Cdl. Müller, October 2024. ©Michael Haynes

Michael Haynes: You’ve highlighted in previous interviews aspects like Fiducia Supplicans which have caused great confusion. I know that some have said that another pope should issue some formal clarification or even a retraction of such things because there's been so much confusion. Do you think that is something that a new pope ought to do in the future?

Cardinal Gerhard Müller: I was personally often accused by the so-called progressives of criticizing the pope, but I never criticized the pope. I gave only answers to the legitimate questions of the faithful with my authority as a theologian of the former prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith and as bishop in communion with the Pope.

Everybody has a right for these clarifications; if there is something doubtful that nobody knows how to interpret, we must go back to the clear word of God and the doctrine of the Holy Scripture as the basis and the criteria.

If there is something not so clear, we have to go back to Revelation because Holy Scripture and Apostolic tradition have the magisterial authority…

The Magisterium has this very important role for the conservation and clearness of the revealed doctrine, the revealed word of God and our faith. But the Pope doesn’t receive a new revelation and the Magisterium cannot teach anything other than that which they have heard from Jesus Christ. The end of the Gospel of St. Matthew clearly reads, “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.”

The Word of God is a criteria for the preaching of the Apostles or the bishops and the popes.

Michael Haynes: Something else that you've often issued clarifications on or highlighted concerns on have been some of the more prominent questions that we’ve seen come through in the Synod in recent years. Do you think there are dangers for the Church perhaps if one of the cardinals were to become Pope who’s very closely aligned with elements of that ideology which is pushing a lot of that confusion? Is that something that could cause harm, because I know you've mentioned the risk of possible schism in the Church, depending on what things a future Pope might do or say?

Cardinal Gerhard Müller: We had in history some schisms over popes who did not do their duty. The Lutheran reformation came because Pope Leo X and the Avignon popes didn’t do their mission. We have historical examples…

The same people who criticized Paul VI so harshly for the encyclical Humanae Vitae – or John Paul II, Benedict, they hated him – the same people and journalists are now presenting a doctrine that the word of a pope is absolute, without referring to revelation, as if he was an oracle of Delphi, or as a Dalai Lama or Caliph or anything, or an absolute monarch. All these political, religious wrong applications must look at what the Council of Florence said about the Primate and the dogmatic definition of primacy in the First Vatican Council, and the Second Vatican Council in context with the collegiality of the bishops and this is clearly expressed.

They must look at Catholic theology and teaching about papacy, about bishops, magisterium, and this [papacy] is not an unlimited absolute power like a dictator… the pope is obliged to say what is the truth of Jesus Christ…

Some Catholics or some non-Catholics and journalists, present this interpretation of a papal pyramid as the absolute authority, but they are fairly selective – only if he says anything that is pleasing to them. Any word of him in the airplane that is for them ex cathedra.

The private opinions [of a pope] have nothing to do with this mission. The Pope is a person like everybody, and has his experiences, his judgments, his prejudices, his mentality: nobody is perfect.

Cardinals and bishops at Pope Francis’ funeral, April 2025. ©Michael Haynes

Michael Haynes: This is your first conclave. Looking at the Church, what do you find is the biggest concern?

Cardinal Gerhard Müller: For me, the most decisive moment is that the new pope must be absolutely orthodox. He is a guardian of the orthodoxy of the Church. He doesn't have a wrong understanding from what is and is not orthodox. He must have a clear and diplomatic understanding. The pope is not a moderator of the left and right like in a political party. The pope is a principle of the unity of the Church, of the bishops – but in the revealed faith, not in political sense.

And this unity is given as fundamental in the unity of the Father and of the Son. It's not only horizontal unity, but it's a unity between the disciples of Jesus Christ. You shall be one like I am one with the Father. It's Trinitarian, founded in Holy Trinity; unity in communion.

Recently we had the feast of St. Athanasius…There were big defamations against him, all the accusations… this is also a form of persecution. Not only with blood, they can also persecute people with fake news, small interpretations.

Michael Haynes: Is it hard, do you find, in the process of the general congregations and in the Conclave, to discern if a candidate is, as you say, truly orthodox? Do the meetings and the conversations allow for that discovery?

Cardinal Gerhard Müller: I think everybody wants to be orthodox, nobody would say “I’m not orthodox.”

But also some theologians of today want to make a redefinition of orthodoxy. Some speak of development of the doctrine. The development of doctrine is not a destruction of development.

The [Second] Vatican Council speaks about progress and understanding. In the first times, nobody spoke about the assumption of the Holy Virgin, the Holy Mother of God, the Holy Virgin. But later came meditation about the person's beginning, the Immaculate Conception and Assumption.

This is a development of doctrine… But it's not evolution of the doctrine.

A lot of them [clerics today] speak in these terms, “open and closed and going forward or backwards.” These phrases.

Participants of the Synod on Synodality, Sept 2024. ©Michael Haynes

Michael Haynes: It has to be, as you say, the true development as St. John Henry Newman posits it.

Cardinal Gerhard Müller: But I don't know if everybody is aware of these things, no? There is a different understanding perhaps. In former times it was necessary when becoming a bishop to be a master, a doctor in theology.

If you want to be the teacher of the others, you must know more then the others. The professor must know his themes better than the beginners. The students are beginners.